Hi everyone,

I hope you can help me in English   My 1991 BX GTi is only with me for 1 month (approx) and has a problem with the engine.

The symptoms are:
- misfire for a shor time (15 secs) after cold starting
- will not pass approx 3500-4000 RPM in any gear including neutral
- sometimes it will pass 4000 RPM, sometimes not.

Maybe someone had this same problem before and knows the solution?

If not, perhaps someone can tell me what volts and/or ohms I should look for on the various ignition components (coil, ign amplifier/module, distributor) so I can test with a multimeter. Otherwise I will have to replace items at random until I find the faulty one.

Thanks very much - dank u wel
M

have you checked the exhaust pipe? it could be that the inside is comming loose :s (strange bolls of fluf coming from the exhaust)

Sounds like one of the ignition components is faulty.
Could be: sparkplugs (cheap and easy to replace)
Distributorcap including rotor, not to expensive either, it is worth taking it off an see how it looks on the inside
Spark cables, check if these are all connected properly, but an internal break is also possible, had this recently with a friends car fairly new leads, but broken!
And last but not least the coil, but usually that one gives problems when it is getting hot

Good luck finding the problem!

Sounds to me like the fuel pump is dying or fuel filter filthy, or maybe the injector (which i don’t really think). When the fuel filter is filthy, the car doesn’t want to rev.

Thank you all for your thoughts

Today I found the main HT (high tension / spark) lead from the coil to the distributor had a rusty connection at the coil end. I drove to a Bergam shop and bought a new one but it made no difference at all! Boo

Asked at Bergam if they have a coil I can test but they do not allow it. Anyway they did not have one in stock and it was €64 so I didn’t buy it.

Then I played a bit more with the revs and found I can rev it all the way if I do not use full throttle.  As soon as my foot is on the floor, the problem begins.

Disconnected the throttle position sensor - no change. Actually there seemed NO difference in the way the engine runs when that was disconnected which I thought strange.

So I am still confused and frustrated with this problem! Is there anyone of you who is not too far from Amsterdam / Amstelveen who has a spare good coil I can try?

Also does anybody know the values (volts / ohms) for the coil and other parts of the ignition system? I have a multimeter so can test them but need to know what numbers to look for.

Rustyduck you mention the distributor cap and arm but it has wasted spark (I am 99% sure?!) so there are no moving parts in there as far as I know.

Thank you again
M

I had a similar problem with a BX 1.9 TZI break (same engine) once, although that BX would not rev above 2500rpm. Also no change when disconnecting the throttle position sensor. The problem was that one of the wires to the throttle position sensor was broken… (no visible problem though, after measuring the resistance on all the wires in the engine wiring loom I found one that was broken)

Well, Goofblikscha had some problems with his current TZI break also. I don’t remember what fixed this last problem. Oh wait, it was simply refueling….

You mention it misfires for a short time (15 secs) after cold starting.
Is it OK after that 15 secs?

citroofreak schreef:

Well, Goofblikscha had some problems with his current TZI break also. I don’t remember what fixed this last problem. Oh wait, it was simply refueling….

H@ns schreef:

You mention it misfires for a short time (15 secs) after cold starting.
Is it OK after that 15 secs?

The idle is better after that time (and the orange K lamp goes off), but when driving the problem is almost always there. 

This afternoon when driving, I noticed a very slight misfire whilst cruising.  It also sometimes cuts out whilst cruising but comes back very quickly.  It’s difficult to know if this is caused by the same problem!

If I could get some known good spare parts (coil, distributor) to test it would be a massive help.

Have you tried to read the ECU’s fault-codes? Your ECU must have some stored error code(s) now, because you’ve had the throttle position sensor disconnected. You can also try to reset the ECU. (removing the battery terminals overnight should reset the ECU) Some strange errors can be fixed this way…

Well, just thinking:
Distributor (not the cap, you checked this) can be the problem, I had one that gave problems in lower revs.
BDP sensor (top dead point sensor?) can be faulty.
Ignition module can be faulty, can give variable interference (been there).
Coil can give problems, specially when it is wet. Is it better when the weather is dry?
You can also check the air inlet hose for cracks/tears, this can cause wrong mixture.
Temperature sensor can be faulty, if you know where it is you can test it with a multitester.

BDP sensor = crankshaft/flywheel sensor

Fault codes - a good idea GoofBliksha and one I have done some work on just now

Codes were:
31 Wrong fuel/air mixture
33 Air flow or MAP sensor / Throttle potentiometer (Mono-Jetronic)
52 Oxygen sensor system control

Then I cleared the codes and went for a drive.  There is a very very slight misfire at cruise, hardly noticable.  Once she was warmed up I pushed harder and it seemed the problem was gone! But then after a little more driving, it was clear to see the problem is still there.

Then I returned home and read the ECU fault codes again.  This time, no fault code was recorded (just 12, 11).

I did notice a bit of strange behaviour of the rev counter when revving it up in neutral.  It only happened once and very quickly but I wonder if it is related.  You can notice that at the very start of the second video:

Mostly 2nd gear and full throttle. You can see the camera shaking due to the misfire…
http://youtu.be/kZ4RAHc4Xyo

Some revving in netural and then driving a bit: (notice rev counter behavior at the very start)
http://youtu.be/HR9QEG-dRlA

I think the coil or the ignition module is suspect.
They send signal to the rev counter.

It is not difficult to change them.

Hi everyone,

Sadly the problem has got worse.  On Monday evening I left my office and the car stopped about 200m from the car park.  Totally dead, it would not start at all but the starter is working OK.

Before this happened I was testing it in the car park and found that I could open the throttle fully, it would misfire quite bad and not rev above about 2500-3000 rpm.  During this, I could feel the fuel feed pipe was not hard, makes me think the fuel pressure was very low.  When I release the throttle and allow it to idle, the pipe became hard again.

Since it died I have tried to start it and the pipe is always soft.  Yesterday I fitted a new fuel filter but this didn’t make any difference.

Today I took the spark plugs out to be sure that there’s a spark - there is.

I turned the engine with the starter while the spark plugs were out and find that there is no fuel mist shooting out of the holes - so, for sure, no fuel is getting into the engine.

Then I removed the fuel feed pipe, put it in a bottle and tried starting the engine.  No petrol came out.  Tried the same with the fuel return pipe - still nothing.

So now I think it must be the fuel pump, or relay or fuse.

Can someone tell me where the fuel pump fuse and relay are? I looked in the fuse box but don’t find anything for fuel.

And - is it correct that the pump should only work when 1) trying to start and 2) engine running.  i.e. it does not pump when you just turn the ignition on (key in position 2).

My next plan is to try:
1) directly feed 12v to the pump and see if it works (and then if the engine will start with the direct feed)
2) to check if there is 12v at the pump but I can only do this with help from an assistant. 

Mmmmm, anyone got any other ideas or… anything?! I feel I’m getting there and I really hope it is not a problem like broken wire or ECU or something.  Dead relay or pump, I can fix that but auto electrics I really HATE!!

Cheers, greets from Amsterdam
Leo